Untitled Document

Healthy Dog Life Healthy Dog Life Healthy Dog Life

 

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 11 to 19 of 19

Thread: Tips to choose a good dog breeder

  1. #11
    Intermediate Member Lee at Delayre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sun Valley California (part of Los Angeles in the San Fernando Valley)
    Posts
    130
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 25 Times in 23 Posts
    In California she could be charged with two counts of animal cruelty . It is illegal to let a puppy go before 8 weeks of age . No reputable breeder will let a puppy go before 10 weeks
    Make sure you have your vet worm the puppies and start their shots at 6 weeks. My Vet usually dose a Distemper measle shot andParvo shot at 6 weeks and then at 8, 10, 12 and 16 weeks
    a DHPP shot. If the puppies are wormy that can interfere with the shot. Also if there is Parvo in England make sure you keep the puppies at home (no walks or trips to the park ) until they are
    16 weeks old and have had that shot






  2. #12
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    upstate new york!
    Posts
    10
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Hi! My family and I are looking to adopt 2 yorkie puppies. We dont want to spend the hundreds/thousands of dollars a breeder asks though (no offense - this is only in the case of yorkies ). We are hoping to find a home that was suprised with a litter. Or maybe a litter at an animal shelter. Is this a bad idea? If you think we could do this, what questions should we ask the people there? What should we look for when we visit them? I know you are not a yorkie breeder, but any advice would be great!





  3. #13
    Intermediate Member Lee at Delayre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sun Valley California (part of Los Angeles in the San Fernando Valley)
    Posts
    130
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 25 Times in 23 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by mhorbs View Post
    Hi! My family and I are looking to adopt 2 yorkie puppies. We dont want to spend the hundreds/thousands of dollars a breeder asks though (no offense - this is only in the case of yorkies ). We are hoping to find a home that was suprised with a litter. Or maybe a litter at an animal shelter. Is this a bad idea? If you think we could do this, what questions should we ask the people there? What should we look for when we visit them? I know you are not a yorkie breeder, but any advice would be great!
    I am not sure what area you are in but in Los Angeles it is very expensive to breed puppies This is on my web site which breaks down what is cost to legally ethicaly and morally raise a litter of 4 puppies for the first time . I use it for people wanting to breed thinking they are going to make big bucks. People tend to think breeders a greedy money grubbers when they ask 1200 to 1500 for a puppy . Their profit on a puppy is only 200 to 400 dollars and their is no compensation for the time to raise the puppies and sell them. Add just minimum wage they would loose money at 1200. I have a friend who is a wholesale distributor for a very high end department , She pays $15 for an outfit which wholesales to this store for 50 and is sold for 250 to 300 a 600 % markup . This is quite long but I think it will be an eye opener

    COST OF BREEDING A LITTER OF PUPPIES
    Necessary for the health of the mother and her litter A trip to the veterinarian for the following:
    Health check., worming, and fresh shots for mom , brucellosis test....................$180.00
    Stud service fee........(give or take depending on breeder ) $1000 to $1500 ...
    After breeding:
    Top quality food for mom .................................................$ 36.00
    Whelping pen .................................................. ....$125
    At birth:
    Vet check and cleanout shot .................................$65.00
    Tails and dew claws............................................. .. $180.00
    As puppies grow:
    Misc. expenses (trash bags, extra heat, papers, paper towels heating pads)..........$130.00
    Vet visit 6 weeks for 1st shots and worming (distemper measles and parvo ) .................................................. ...............$250.00
    Vet visit 8 weeks for 2nd shots and worming (DHPP) .................................................. ...............$250.00
    Vet visit 10 weeks for 3rd shots (Parvo) .................................................. .....................................$175.00
    Vet visit 12 weeks for 4th shot (DHPP)..............$250.00
    Advertising for min 4 weeks (1 week per pup )...$356.00
    Puppy food .................................................. ..................$ 61.00
    Exercise Pen............................................... ....................$ 90.00
    Toys.............................................. ...................................$ 32.00
    Breeders license and unaltered fee...LA City ........$220.00
    (LA County $280 )
    Litter registration...................................... .............$ 33.00 AKC $20 UKC
    Micro chip required with breeders license 320.00
    Cost for 4 (Wire or Silky Terrier ) pups without problems......$4187 to 3687 (1046.75 to 921.76 each pup)

    The above price is the cost to a pet breeder. Who has no experience in breeding dogs and must depend on professional help. They are breeding their dog, reputably and responsibly. A experience breeder will cut the cost by about 25%. The Veterinarian prices are average but can be higher or lower depending on the area you live in or Veterinarian. These are California prices . There is no expense for your time , a rider on your homes owners policy to cover a one time business activity , any emergency or genetic screening This also reflects the 1st litter additional litters will not need a new whelping box and exercise pen . This also represents top quality breeders with great concern for their puppies breeding legally ethically and morally.


    HIDDEN COSTS, PROBLEMS AND SLOW TO SELL:
    You have to be present when your female is in labor and you are out one or two days worth of wages. Include your lost wages in the price of your puppies.
    If you are going to sell your puppies check with your homeowners insurance to see if you are covered if a person is injured or heaven forbid bitten while looking at you puppies, Most homeowners will not pay the claim as you are conducting a commercial activity. Add fee for additional commercial insurance to the puppy's selling price.
    Your puppies don't sell in four ads. You must continue advertising at $84 per week (cheap ads do not work just eat up valuable selling time) Puppies are going to need additional shots at about $50 each per set. What if they don't ever sell. You must license the puppies at 4 months. If you have more than three dogs you are in violation of most city dog limit laws. Are you now going to turn them into the pound, give them away , put them to sleep , or keep them and hope you have understanding neighbors when you have extra dogs.
    MEDICAL PROBLEMS
    C-Section........................................... ...... $600 - $2400
    Mastitis eclampsia pymetria................ $150 - $500
    Supplement for puppies if mother dies or cannot nurse..............$5.00per day and up
    All pups get Parvo............................................. ...................................$1200 up per puppy

    Oh one more expense often overlooked the IRS WILL WANT PART OF YOUR SELLING PRICE.
    What it all boils down to, do not breed unless you are totally committed to the care and well being of your dog and her puppies. You should have at least $4000 in your bank account and should have a backup plan if the puppies do not sell, which if you have a good size litter or professional competition the odds are that they won't all sell.

    A regular breeder can figure about $200 less per puppy. To break even each puppy must sell quickly for 800 to 1000 . When it comes to Yorkies they have more genetic problems than other toy dogs do the numbers be born opening the floodgate to unethical breeders . For instance the Yorkshire Club of America is funding research on Portocaval Shunts (liver) a major problem in the breed to try to isolate the DNA and eventually be able to recognize carriers .

    So lets say you find a breeder selling puppies for 300 to 500 . They don't do all of the above . They sell thier puppies in the cheapest form of advert they can find and let you get the first shots (this will help you save money ) WRONG. You now have a puppy wide open for the viruses . If they didn't worm the puppies (if no shots why worm them ) the worms will interfere with the shot when it is given. Incubation on Parvo is 5 to 10 days Distemper longer . When you walk into the Vet to get the shots BAM they have just been exposed to all air born viruses and if you have come in contact with Parvo walking down the street or on the floor of the Vet hospital your puppy is now incubating a virus . One gram is infected fecal matter can infect 250 dogs . Death from Parvo is 50/50 and the average Vet bill is 1200 to 1800 .

    Even surprise litters need proper care and nutrition . Good breeders will usually let older puppies that are not show quality go for less . They will have the proper shots and care , micro chips and they are healhty . In my case young pet puppies without major show faults usually go from 1000 to 1500. Teenagers are usually reduced in price to 400 to 700 on spay neuter contracts although most are neutered prior to leaving. The following in information on my site on how to choose a reputable breeder of any breed





  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Lee at Delayre For This Useful Post:

    Sarah (11-09-2010)

  5. #14
    Intermediate Member Lee at Delayre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sun Valley California (part of Los Angeles in the San Fernando Valley)
    Posts
    130
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 25 Times in 23 Posts
    This
    How To Choose a Reputable Dog Breeder
    Do not buy a puppy under 10 weeks of age. Most breeders will not let their puppies go before 10 to 12 weeks. A puppy is most vulnerable to diseases such as Distemper and Parvo between 6 to 9 weeks of age when their maternal antibodies begin to break down.
    Do not purchase any puppy that has not had proper shots and has not been wormed. A puppy at 8 weeks of age should have had at the very least one modified live Parvo shot and a Distemper Measles shot for minimum protection against these viruses. They should also have had 2 wormings prior to these shots so that a worm infestation will not interfere with the shots. Most puppies that die from Parvo are wormy . Parvo is the biggest killer of young puppies and one of the easiest to spread. A "born in the USA" virus it was spread world wide within a year. Most good breeders give Parvo shots every 2 to 3 from 6 weeks to 20 weeks to help close the window of opportunity for it to infect their puppies. Maternal antibodies can interfere with the shots and can last up to 16 weeks making the vaccine less effective, but allowing the virus to invade the system when the antibodies are breaking down. Other shots given by breeders usually starting at 8 to10 weeks are Distemper - measles, and DHPP. The shot information should be listed on your bill of sale along with the name of the Veterinarian. If the shots are given by the breeder ask to see either the bill of sale for the vaccine or the vaccines. This is not an unusual request as this is the only proof of shots you will have. If they do not have a bill of sale for the shots or vaccines they probably have not given them shots.
    A breeder should give you a written health guarantee for one year against major genetic or congenital diseases and 15 days from the date of sale against existing problems your Veterinarian might find or incubating viruses.
    Check with your Veterinarian about genetic problems associated with the breed you are interested in. Ask if your breeder will stand behind their puppies for these diseases. Incidentally if your breeder doesn’t know about genetic diseases in their breed go elsewhere.
    If you are more knowledgeable about dogs than the breeder don’t buy from them.
    You should be able to see at least one parent. The newest scam in California are dog brokers or dealers. and smuggled (Please read the BBB and Customs alerts on my home page) They come from out of state and set up business in private homes and apartments. If you ask about the parents they will say " Uncle Bob from S. Dakota" or "my sister Sue from Kansas " happened to be passing through and asked me to sell her puppies. I once tracked one dealer that had five breeds advertised all from different states with the same story . He had two different addresses and five phone numbers in six months. People selling puppies that they did not breed (especially from out of state or country ) must have a legal kennel or pet shop. Never meet a breeder someplace other than his home. You want to see where those puppies were raised. No breeder that cares about their puppies will cart them all over the place and expose them to possible viruses just to make a buck. For all you know that puppy could have been stolen.
    Never buy from a breeder with two prices , one with papers and one without. Papers only cost $25.00 plus $2.00 per puppy for an entire litter, so why the difference in price? Buy only AKC or UKC registered purebreds. If they don’t have papers they may have been suspended by their registry for such things as bad record keeping, inhumane living conditions, impure breeding, or cruelty convictions. Unless spaying or neutering is required prior to registration the breeder should provide you with your registration application. It should be properly signed and transferred to you. If there was a prior owner proper supplemental transfer application should be provided and signed by those previous owners. If no papers are available at the time the breeder should provide you with the registered AKC OR UKC name of both parents, name of breeder of litter, sex of your puppy , color and date of birth. This is the only hope of getting registration papers if the breeder doesn’t provide them after purchase. There are only two major all breed dog registries in the United States, the American Kennel Club ( AKC) established in 1884 and the United Kennel Club ,(UKC) established in 1898.. There have been a few new all breed registries pop up in the last 10 years, but in my opinion I would only buy from AKC and UKC breeders.
    I do not recommend co-ownership’s. Some breeders do this but don’t forget you are not the full owner and if the breeder wants that dog back he may be able to get him. Also if your breeder should be suspended by their registry so is your dog. I also would avoid breeders terms. The breeder will sell the puppy for cash and some puppies. This forces you to breed your dog. The breeder will usually pay the first stud fee but you are responsible for any additional costs of raising the litter and in some cases additional stud fees if the breeder didn’t get the required number of puppies in your litter. I know one man that bred his female 3 times and still owed the breeder one puppy plus an additional one for the next breeding. It is a great deal for the breeder for a constant source of puppies. One breeder had over 300 puppies coming back on puppy back deals. Show contracts can be O.K. as long as you are aware that once the contract is signed you must finish that dog in the show ring. The cost can be quite high and your dog will spend time away from home to be on the show circuit . Spay neuter contracts where papers are provided after proof of altering and in some cases financial penalties if the dog is not altered within a certain period time are perfectly appropriate . Good breeders will sell with limited registrations, non-breeding contracts and or neuter contracts and won’t encourage breeding .
    A reputable breeder will be able to show you letters and pictures from satisfied clients. Their puppies will be , clean., properly vaccinated and they will not try to push their puppies on you just to get rid of them. They will provide a written health guarantee ( 15 days against viruses and 1 year against congenital or hereditary defects) , shot record ,registration papers or the information stated above if not back from UKC or AKC, a bill of sale, and at least one week supply of food . They also will be there for you after you buy and will always take back the puppy in the future if you are unable to keep it rather then have it turned into the pound. Remember buying from a reputable breeder is a privilege not a done deal..
    And this about puppy scams which snare people looking for puppies
    BORDER PUPPIES
    Are becoming the majority of puppies being sold in California . At one time they were being smuggled in form Mexico In 2005 about 10,000 per year. Now thanks in part to breeder restriction laws and mandatory spay and neutering that number has jumped to 280,000 in 06. They are now coming in through countries such as Chili, Indonesia, Mexico , Korea and Russia. Unlike the USA some other countries don't have age restrictions and puppies are coming in as young as three weeks of age . Many die before being sold as young as 4 and 5 weeks of age. Customs requires that the people bringing in puppies from these countries quarantine them until they reach 4 months of age and have their rabies shot before being sold. Surprise to no one including customs the puppies are not being quarantined but sold ASAP. Most are Maltese, Yorkshire Terriers, Pomeranians and Shih Tzu. Many at 4 weeks of age they are being sold as T cups
    Boarder puppies are not necessarily cheap. Some sell as high as $2000. They are sold primarily through the internet and low cost ads . such as the recycler, penny saver. The easiest way to determine if it is a boarder pup is no parent. Don't be fooled by photos of the "parents". They are sold through mainly private parties. Occasionally they will be sold through pet shops and kennels. Pet shops must disclose where they were born. It must be on their cages and you may ask for documentation. If they call themselves kennels their license will be posted along with a sellers permit and business permit. If not they are operating an illegal kennel. The laws are not important to this type of puppy seller they just move and set up business in a new location. They use throwaway cells and very rarely leave a paper trail . Many puppies die prior to or shortly after being sold other may have ongoing heath concerns. The biggest concern is rabies. In the USA the main carriers of rabies are bats, and skunks. The domesticated dog and cat are not considered a problem. In the countries mentioned, dogs are major carriers of rabies The incubation period for rabies can be very short (3 weeks ) or very long (1 yr ) A rabies shot given to a puppy carrying the virus that has yet to incubate will not stop the virus. The County of Los Angeles has a border puppy task force. They sent out a form for Veterinarians to report possible border puppies. I have links to the letter and more information below. The first is called Breed Wars the second the Veterinarian form
    States crack down on puppy mills - DVM
    http://admin.publichealth.lacounty.g...iesPubHlth.pdf





  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Lee at Delayre For This Useful Post:

    Sarah (11-09-2010)

  7. #15
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    upstate new york!
    Posts
    10
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Thank you so much for the information! I will definately take this into consideration when looking at puppies!





  8. #16
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Hi Gail
    Pups do live close to each other and see each other all the time.





  9. #17
    Intermediate Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    82
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    That's great trixie
    At least they aren't completely isolated from other dogs
    One of my previous dogs lived close to her littlermate and they saw each other all their lives
    They were the best of friends





  10. #18
    Moderator Sarah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    971
    Thanks
    29
    Thanked 78 Times in 75 Posts
    Valuable Information Lee thank you very much for sharing this with us.





  11. #19
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    5
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Hi Gail
    We are wanting them to be best friends the get on great so playful with each other.




    Last edited by trixie10; 11-11-2010 at 07:08 AM.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
© 2010 www.dog-help.info